Interview with Robert "Red" Cravens - 25 August 2003
Telephone Interview -- not taped, notes taken

Robert "Red" Cravens = RC

7467 Mission Gorge Road, #141

Santee, CA 92071-3339

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Called RC as followup to lead/suggestion by Harley Bray.

RC said that for him and the Brays, "Bean Blossom was the University of Bluegrass."

RC background: from Tuscola, Illinois, born July 4, 1932.   When he was a baby, the family would go to Greenfield, Illinois, near Alton, which was then a very old-fashioned town, with wooden sidewalks.  There they would attend all-night square dances, and RC's dad told him that he would fall asleep listening to the fiddles. 

RC's father had a "ham receiver", which RC used in the 1930s and 1940s.  Recalled tuning in to WSM, hearing Monroe with Flatt and Scruggs.  Would also pick up many other country stations; he heard Little Jimmy Dickens on Indianapolis' WIBC, also Asher and Little Jimmy Sizemore.  Remembers listening to WSM, WLS, XERF, WLW, and more.

Tuscola, Illinois had radio station WDZ, which later moved to Decatur, Ill.  It was an old station (per RC, the first station in the country was KDKA, and WDZ was the third).  Station WDZ was run by farmers, people involved in the commodities markets, and in those days featured live music all day -- little or no programming done with records.   When he was in 4th grade (c. 1941?), RC would go to the station after school, around 4 p.m., to watch the musicians play.  He even sang on the radio, accompanied by a "jazz trio and country band" named [?] ". . . Behind the Eight Ball."  They had him sing "Marizie Doats" on the air.  It was at WDZ that RC met Johnny Barton, later called "Uncle Johnny Barton" when he worked on radio station WHOW, in Clinton, Illinois. 

One of the artists on WDZ was "Bluegrass Roy Freeman," whose nickname indicated only that he was from Kentucky -- he did not play in the later bluegrass music style.  Freeman's son John first taught RC some guitar runs. 

RC met the Bray Brothers around 1954, and they began to play together. RC was then working for the phone company in Matoon, Illinois, and he and the Brays would play live shows on WLBH.  RC said that in that period they began to consciously try to copy the sound of Bill Monroe.  His guitar-playing, first shaped by hearing Bluegrass Roy Freeman, was later strongly by Red Smiley, from whom he learned "the D-run and the G-run," and also by Edd Mayfield. They also played square-dances in the "Little Egypt" part of Illinois, near Cairo, where RC said he "played till my fingers bled.  That's where I got my calluses."

Around 1956 or 1957 two Bray brothers, Nate and Harley, enlisted together, so as not to be drafted.  Although the Korean war was over, there was still a huge American presence there, and they were sent to Korea.  Francis Bray, the third brother, was not eligible for military service due to health problems.   In that period, around 1957, RC began to go over to Bean Blossom regularly, and he and Francis played together with banjo player Jerry Waller, who may have told them about the place.  They stayed with Martinsville resident Kyle Wells, who also put up Birch Monroe for a time during the same period.  Heard many great shows, including the Stanley Brothers and Reno & Smiley in 1958.  Also saw and met Roy Acuff; Merle Travis, who traveled there with his wife in a little camper; and Wilma Lee and Stoney Cooper.  Wilma Lee like the Bray Brothers, wrote a song for them, but it was "a country type of song," and didn't go anywhere for them commercially.  There was no separation of the audience from the performers; RC said it was "so informal, even in the early days.  There was nothing to be snooty about.  It was tough" times.

RC recalled going over to Bean Blossom from Illinois on a Friday, even though the show wasn't until Sunday; they stayed with Kyle until Sunday, then went to the show.  RC "often" shared a bed with Birch Monroe, but recalled that Birch wouldn't come in until after 2:00 a.m., because he loved coon hunting and would be out much of the night.  They got to be friends, and in 1959, RC even helped Birch "run things" at the BCJ, and donated a small amount of money to help keep the shows running.   For a time, RC and Birch and Jerry Waller and Kyle Wells played there together as a sort of unofficial "house band."  They helped to introduce other acts on, and when they played, they had no regular band name; they would either make up a name, like "The Boys from Martinsville," or were just introduced by their individual names.

RC remembered that when he first got to Bean Blossom, all there was was the barn, and crowds were often small, because in the 1950s "country music was hurting" due to the sudden onslaught of rock'n'roll.  "All of a sudden, what we were doing was old-fashioned," said RC. However, in 1960, when the Brays played there regularly, crowds picked up a bit; instead of seeing just the first three rows of chairs filled, they might fill the barn half-full or two-thirds full.

RC remembered a time when Bill Monroe was at the BCJ, and he and Francis came over there in an old Studebaker car that Francis owned.  They got a flat tire on the way, and put on their spare.  But about 2 miles from the Jamboree, they got another flat tire, and so decided to finish the trip on then-graveled roads "riding on the rim, with sparks a-flying."  RC said Bill Monroe got a big laugh out of seeing them arrive that way.

RC recalled the Stanley Brothers at BCJ.  He said Ralph was sort of reclusive, like Bill Monroe;  he would disappear, needing some "quiet time" of his own when he was not slated to be on stage.  Carter, however, was gregarious; he would talk, jam, "chew the fat," and trade licks with other players, including RC. 

RC, playing at Bean Blossom around 1957 or 1958, remembered doing some shows with coal-oil lamps instead of electric lights.

Harley learned some licks from Ralph Stanley, and found that the unique sound of Ralph's banjo came from "having ball bearings under the rim." 

In very hot humid weather -- which played havoc with banjos, making them get "all flatty," musicians would play on an unroofed platform that Monroe built "back in the woods."  The platform had a railing around its front, which interfered with pictures being taken of the musicians.  It was a bit more shady in the woods, and there were wooden benches there from which to watch the show.  To get there, one went down the hill, past the cabin by the lake.  RC slept in that cabin, but kept hearing "Pike County Breakdown" in his mind. 

RC remembered seeing many acts from Nashville, "but never Flatt and Scruggs."  He recalled that you couldn't even mention their name then, for fear that it would cause Bill Monroe to fly into a rage.

When the Brays and RC were there, RC didn’t pay as much attention to the shows themselves, but more often was drawn to the jamming which took place outside in the afternoons, and in the dressing and rehearsal rooms backstage in the evening after the shows.  Sometimes they'd play until after midnight, jamming with Monroe and others, backstage.  RC played with Monroe's BG Boys and other musicians there: Lowell Denman, Kenny Baker, Joe Stuart.   Kenny Baker particularly liked Red's playing, and they would play together "for hours." 

RC also remembered doing a show at Crawfordsville, Indiana (c. 1958?) with Bill Monroe, at a local fair.  There was no band; just RC, Francis Bray, and Bill Monroe, because Bill had had a car problem, a broken axle, and the BG Boys were stranded.  Monroe came ahead to the show because he wanted to "never miss a show," and picked up RC and FB to do it. This was just after Monroe had returned from Edd Mayfield's funeral in Florida, and so there was no rehearsal -- Bill just talked about Jesus, and how we never know when we'll be taken.  Still, RC remembered that they knew all his material, and played well together that day.  For RC, playing that whole show with Bill was "the highlight, the high point."

In 1960, when RC and the Bray Bros. were there, Monroe would sometimes come without a full band, knowing he could rely on them.  He'd bring a fiddler -- Kenny Baker or Bobby Hicks -- and a bass player, and add RC and Harley on banjo.

[I asked about tapes, recordings of the Brays at BCJ.]  Jim Ludwig -- who may have told them about the BCJ in the first place -- was a film projectionist who was very interested in tape recording.  He had an Ampex tape recorder, on which they recorded the version of "John Henry" that was released on the eventual album "419 W. Main."  RC recalled them rehearsing in a cabin at the BCJ.

RC said "the main thing" about Bean Blossom was that  "We didn't care about money in those days.  If we did, we wouldn't have went there.  Bean Blossom was the University of Bluegrass."

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